Discussion:
Soviets Huge Role in Defeat of Hitler
(too old to reply)
kb
2004-06-11 16:52:20 UTC
Permalink
Due to the cold war..."the West hushed up the USSR's role in the
victory over the Nazi for ideological and political reasons...

"the Western allies have never given proper recognition to the part
played by the USSR in the defeat of Hitler's armies.

An estimated 27 million citizens of the Soviet Union perished in World
War II. By comparison, total casualties for the USA and Great Britain,
military and civilian, are estimated at around 700,000. "

Excerpted from:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3777161.stm

------------------

So, while we recognize and thank veterans for our freedom, we should
also thank our comrades - the Russian soldiers too.

It's my understanding that the commies never really wanted to take
over the USA - that the fear of that was largely manufactured by our
own propaganda system - the propaganda system that teaches most of us
to place words like "socialist", "communist", & "scumbag" all in the
same category.

The same propaganda system that has many Americans currently believing
that the invasion and occupation of Iraq - is related in some way to a
war on terrorism! Or that tells us that our country is greater than
all the other countrys in the world. Truth is, ours is the biggest
bully in the world!

KB

----------------------------
"Truth like the sun, submits to be obscured; but like the sun, only
for a time." Bovee
---------------------

American mainstream corporate news can't be trusted - to serve the
people. The owners are in it for the money and power only. For the
most part, they keep the people in the dark and work as parrots for
the white house and pentagon.

Here are two pretty good sources for news:

http://www.commondreams.org

http://www.democracynow.org

===========

We cannot move on if we are entrapped in structures of economic or
cultural privilege. Sharing, especially in a world where most live at
or below the edge of misery, is as important and relevant as
disarmament; in fact, sharing the resources of the earth is
inseparable from the renunciation of war and violence. On such...
ground, the architecture of a new world order based on human unity
will be easy to conceive and enact." Richard Falk

=========

"Man must change or die. There is no other course."
The World Teacher
http://www.share-international.org
PolicySpy
2004-06-12 03:56:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by kb
Due to the cold war..."the West hushed up the USSR's role in the
victory over the Nazi for ideological and political reasons...
"the Western allies have never given proper recognition to the part
played by the USSR in the defeat of Hitler's armies.
An estimated 27 million citizens of the Soviet Union perished in World
War II. By comparison, total casualties for the USA and Great Britain,
military and civilian, are estimated at around 700,000. "
It's my understanding that the commies never really wanted to take
over the USA - that the fear of that was largely manufactured by our
own propaganda system - the propaganda system that teaches most of us
Russia in pushing the Nazi forces back to Germany certainly held onto
everything in between. And that really should have been the only cold war
issue...From Russia's point of view they were rebuilding their society after
the losses of the war and needed buffer for their homeland and needed to
restrict their society so that it would apply itself to rebuilding the
region.

The situation is confused with two histories running together. The Russian
revolution where the communists overthrew the imperial families shocked U.S.
capitalists who were trade partners with the imperialists...Then just about
the time when Russia's new political structure might be understood, WWII
began and created new sets of problems. Certainly, NATO was needed as a
cohesive balance to the strength and size of Russia's post-WWII holding
because in theory Russia could have been the next force following the Nazi's
method of expansion into Western Europe.

But then Russia with its society rebuilt, sees the need to join world
markets...
t***@concentric.net
2004-06-13 18:27:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by PolicySpy
From Russia's point of view they were rebuilding their society after
the losses of the war and needed buffer for their homeland and needed to
restrict their society so that it would apply itself to rebuilding the
region.
Don't overlook the Russian culture of paranoia as well, which was not
unfounded given the history of attempts by others to invade and take
over their territory. That paranoia still exists to some degree though
how much, I am not qualified to know for sure. NATO makes Russians
nervous and eventually I think Russia has to be part of NATO with a
new mission for the group: preventing invasion by any member against
another. At that point, we could honestly declare the cold war "over"
finally. Until then, it's still hanging on a bit.
--
Therese Shellabarger / The Roving Reporter - Civis Mundi
***@concentric.net / http://tlshell.cnc.net/
PolicySpy
2004-06-13 19:17:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by t***@concentric.net
Post by PolicySpy
From Russia's point of view they were rebuilding their society after
the losses of the war and needed buffer for their homeland and needed to
restrict their society so that it would apply itself to rebuilding the
region.
Don't overlook the Russian culture of paranoia as well, which was not
unfounded given the history of attempts by others to invade and take
over their territory. That paranoia still exists to some degree though
how much, I am not qualified to know for sure. NATO makes Russians
nervous and eventually I think Russia has to be part of NATO with a
new mission for the group: preventing invasion by any member against
another. At that point, we could honestly declare the cold war "over"
finally. Until then, it's still hanging on a bit.
After the revolution they (the working class) were on guard to protect their
political position. After WWII they (Russia as a country) were on guard to
protect their borders and the rebuilding of their society and region.

NATO ? NATO begins to respond to the EU rather than to American
policy...Russia in giving up territory between Russia and East Germany
accepts a cohesive Europe but has also contributed to it. Does Europe want
"a NATO" without the U.S. in it and should Russia and the Ukrane be in NATO
? This I don't know...

Well, Peter the Great built St. Petersburg based on his travels in Europe.
Look up St. Petersburg on a map and see where it is...
kb
2004-06-13 15:30:55 UTC
Permalink
Blueprint for the New Global Economy

The Brandt Equation calls for a full-scale reordering of global
priorities to meet humanity's interrelated economic problems and
development needs. It is a blueprint for the twenty-first century
economy, a definite course of action to renew the foundations of money
and commerce, allowing global economic policies, structures, and
systems to serve the public interest, instead of people and their
environment serving globalization.

http://www.brandt21forum.info

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

"A world of glaring inequality is never going to be a fully
safe world. For millions of people, the threat of terrorism,
or of weapons of mass destruction, is remote compared to the
daily threat of poverty, hunger, unsafe water, environmental
degradation and disease. We have come to a decisive moment
in history." Kofi Annan


“The developed nations of the world cannot remain secure islands of
prosperity in a seething sea of poverty. The storm is rising against
the privileged minority of the earth, from which there is no shelter
in isolation and armament. The storm will not abate until a just
distribution of the fruits of the earth enables men everywhere to live
in dignity and human decency.”
Martin Luther King, Jr
----------------

"Without sharing there can be no justice; without justice there can be
no peace; without peace there can be no future."
Maitreya, the World Teacher
http://www.share-international.org
vonroach
2004-06-15 01:23:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by kb
Blueprint for the New Global Economy
The Brandt Equation calls for a full-scale reordering of global
priorities to meet humanity's interrelated economic problems and
development needs. It is a blueprint for the twenty-first century
economy, a definite course of action to renew the foundations of money
and commerce, allowing global economic policies, structures, and
systems to serve the public interest, instead of people and their
environment serving globalization.
The usual socialist lies. A super USSR, well the USSR was a failure.
The UN is a failure. Socialism in China is imploding. The global
`village' only serves the politicians who exploit the fantasy.
RH
2004-06-16 04:30:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by vonroach
Post by kb
Blueprint for the New Global Economy
The Brandt Equation calls for a full-scale reordering of global
priorities to meet humanity's interrelated economic problems and
development needs. It is a blueprint for the twenty-first century
economy, a definite course of action to renew the foundations of money
and commerce, allowing global economic policies, structures, and
systems to serve the public interest, instead of people and their
environment serving globalization.
The usual socialist lies. A super USSR, well the USSR was a failure.
The UN is a failure. Socialism in China is imploding. The global
`village' only serves the politicians who exploit the fantasy.
And America, acting like a teenage bully on steroids, disliked by
people all over the world (who have a free press), nation that
recently murdered over 15,000 women and children in Iraq, the nation
where both the politicians and news media are owned and operated by
men with major greed issues, is a raging success? Ha!
vonroach
2004-06-16 14:05:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by RH
And America, acting like a teenage bully on steroids, disliked by
people all over the world ...
In the eyes of this teenage brainwashed juvenile quoting the
neodemocrat socialist propaganda. Sonny, don't forget the catsup on
your next hotdog.
t***@concentric.net
2004-06-17 03:47:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by vonroach
Post by RH
And America, acting like a teenage bully on steroids, disliked by
people all over the world ...
In the eyes of this teenage brainwashed juvenile quoting the
neodemocrat socialist propaganda. Sonny, don't forget the catsup on
your next hotdog.
I doubt it.

http://edition.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/06/16/bush.criticism/index.html
Former diplomats call for Bush ouster
Foreign policy damages nation, group says

From Paul Courson
CNN
Thursday, June 17, 2004 Posted: 0106 GMT (0906 HKT)

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The Bush administration's foreign policy in Iraq
and elsewhere has been a "disaster," and President Bush should not be
re-elected, a group of former diplomats and military leaders say in a
newly released statement.

<snip>

Also, the administration has repeatedly made "errors" in facts and
figures on the so-called "war against terror" that always seem to come
out positive at first, only to be downgraded later, almost never the
other way around.

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/06/11/politics/11terr.html
U.S. Wrongly Reported Drop in World Terrorism in 2003

June 11, 2004
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

WASHINGTON, June 10 - The State Department acknowledged Thursday that
it was wrong in reporting that terrorism declined worldwide last year,
a finding the Bush administration had pointed to as evidence of its
success in countering terror.

Instead, the number of incidents and the toll in victims increased
sharply, the department said. Statements by senior administration
officials claiming success were based "on the facts as we had them at
the time; the facts that we had were wrong," Richard A. Boucher, the
State Department spokesman, said.
--
Therese Shellabarger / The Roving Reporter - Civis Mundi
***@concentric.net / http://tlshell.cnc.net/
vonroach
2004-06-17 13:09:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by t***@concentric.net
Post by vonroach
Post by RH
And America, acting like a teenage bully on steroids, disliked by
people all over the world ...
In the eyes of this teenage brainwashed juvenile quoting the
neodemocrat socialist propaganda. Sonny, don't forget the catsup on
your next hotdog.
I doubt it.
Regarding your post of extraneous comments by `ex-government
officials' heavily tinged with a Neo-democrat socialist agenda, I not
only doubt them and you, but see hate and a political agenda in every
lie.
ununu
2004-06-20 00:28:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by vonroach
Regarding your post of extraneous comments by `ex-government
officials' heavily tinged with a Neo-democrat socialist agenda, I not
only doubt them and you, but see hate and a political agenda in every
lie.
Wow, what a co-incidence.

I too see hate and a political agenda in every lie coming from certain
individuals in this forum.

Nice turn around on Neo-democrat, too - why should the cons be the only
one with a prefix?

Keep up the doubt - apply it liberally AND conservatively. It may just
be your key to freedom.
vonroach
2004-06-20 14:45:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by ununu
Post by vonroach
Regarding your post of extraneous comments by `ex-government
officials' heavily tinged with a Neo-democrat socialist agenda, I not
only doubt them and you, but see hate and a political agenda in every
lie.
Wow, what a co-incidence.
I too see hate and a political agenda in every lie coming from certain
individuals in this forum.
Yourself among the worst.
Post by ununu
Nice turn around on Neo-democrat, too - why should the cons be the only
one with a prefix?
Because there was a coup in the party of Jefferson and Jackson, and
the socialists took power under the candidacy of McGovern and still
try to advance that agenda.
The Republican Party remains faithful to its principles.
Post by ununu
Keep up the doubt - apply it liberally AND conservatively. It may just
be your key to freedom.
I doubt that you even understand your own admonition.
ununu
2004-06-24 10:45:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by vonroach
Post by ununu
Wow, what a co-incidence.
I too see hate and a political agenda in every lie coming from certain
individuals in this forum.
Yourself among the worst.
Maybe so - what was my political agenda again? Maybe my semi-frequent
dalliances with _the_ worst have rubbed off.
Post by vonroach
Post by ununu
Nice turn around on Neo-democrat, too - why should the cons be the only
one with a prefix?
Because there was a coup in the party of Jefferson and Jackson, and
the socialists took power under the candidacy of McGovern and still
try to advance that agenda.
The Republican Party remains faithful to its principles.
Would they be the same principles which saw the Roman Republic turned
into the Roman Empire?
Plato, who gave us the root of the term, defined the principles quite
specifically suggesting that those who ruled should have nothing, and
that the only fit ruler was a "Philosopher King" an individual of
unsurpassed wisdom, understanding, humility and compassion. I guess
they weren't the principles you had in mind.

I sure would appreciate you informing me of what precisely it was you
had in mind - it might be a nice change for you to write about what you
like rather than vilifying those you hate.
Post by vonroach
Post by ununu
Keep up the doubt - apply it liberally AND conservatively. It may just
be your key to freedom.
I doubt that you even understand your own admonition.
I have little reason to doubt that you did not understand. Keep at it,
though.
RH
2004-06-16 05:02:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by vonroach
Post by kb
Blueprint for the New Global Economy
The Brandt Equation calls for a full-scale reordering of global
priorities to meet humanity's interrelated economic problems and
development needs. It is a blueprint for the twenty-first century
economy, a definite course of action to renew the foundations of money
and commerce, allowing global economic policies, structures, and
systems to serve the public interest, instead of people and their
environment serving globalization.
The usual socialist lies. A super USSR, well the USSR was a failure.
The UN is a failure. Socialism in China is imploding. The global
`village' only serves the politicians who exploit the fantasy.
And America, acting like a teenage bully on steroids, disliked by
people all over the world (who have a free press), nation that
recently murdered over 15,000 women and children in Iraq, the nation
where both the politicians and news media are owned and operated by
men with major greed issues, is a raging success? Ha!
Strabo
2004-06-22 16:17:35 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 13 Jun 2004 15:30:55 GMT, kb <kno-***@hotmail.com>
wrote:

Hmmm, lunch time and I think I've found some entertainment.
This is a winner!

Let's dissect this paragraph...
Post by kb
Blueprint for the New Global Economy
The Brandt Equation calls for a full-scale reordering of global
priorities to meet humanity's interrelated economic problems and
development needs. It is a blueprint for the twenty-first century
economy, a definite course of action to renew the foundations of money
and commerce, allowing global economic policies, structures, and
systems to serve the public interest, instead of people and their
environment serving globalization.
http://www.brandt21forum.info
Looks like the first sentence contains a major element - "The
Brandt Equation calls for a full-scale reordering of global
priorities." [you can tell they're serious when they use the
word 'reordering']

Just what the heck is the "Brandt Equation"?

According to the website on 'world business', this 'equation'
http://www.worldbusiness.org/publications.cfm?pub=vp&offset=16
is headed as "The Brandt Equation reintroduces the Brandt
Commission’s vision for a sustainable global economy."

So far it sounds a bit like the Kyoto Accords.

It states that "the fortunes of global society are more
encompassing than the fortunes of any individual, group, or
nation - for debt or solvency, for depression or prosperity, for
wars of redistribution or for peace."

OK

"the fortunes of global society are more encompassing than the
fortunes of any individual"

I'm thinking this translates as "The needs of the many outweigh
the needs of a few." Or, more to the point, the needs of
individual don't matter. Yep, that's you, the one reading this -
you count much in the Brandt Equation.

To continue...

"What is missing is simply prudent management of earth’s own
budget - a willingness to share responsibility and power among
nations to fulfill common needs, ensure the right of personal
livelihood, improve living standards, and guarantee the
well-being of global society."

I guess the writer believes that Earth, or rather Earth's budget,
is being mismanaged. I didn't know Earth had a manager. I didn't
know it had a *budget*. Oh, I see, The writer wants to manage the
Earth's budget. I wonder what the budget is?

Uh-oh! There's some collective nonsense.

How does one "share responsibility"? Responsibility, or the
performance of any reciprocol task, can only be measured per
individual, hence only an individual can be responsible.
If it a group thing then everyone skates free since no one
person can be held responsible.

How does one "share power"? Power is a singular attribute.
Either you have power or you don't. If you do have it, then
only you can exercise it, not someone else.

Anway, you're supposed to willingly give up power and
responsibility and your needs will be met.

And then we have some quick one-liners...

"fulfill common needs" = give people stuff

"ensure the right of personal livelihood" = Oh yeah baby,
you will work.

"improve living standards" = give people stuff

"guarantee the well-being of global society" = give people stuff.

So far, the "Brandt Equation" wants you to willingly give up
power and responsibility (Well, you can't share it without giving
it away.), do your personal thing, and your needs will be met.

Here's the remainder...

"The Brandt Equation [above] calls for a full-scale reordering of
global priorities to meet humanity’s interrelated economic
problems and development needs."

So, this Brandt commission wants to change 'global priorities'
(didn't know there were any) and to institute a single economic
development plan. Isn't that what Bush has begun in the middle
east?

"It is a blueprint for the twenty-first century economy, a
definite course of action to renew the foundations of money and
commerce, allowing global economic policies, structures, and
systems to serve the public interest, instead of people and their
environment serving globalization."

This is a good one! They want to "renew" [take over] the
"foundations of money" [national reserve banks and treasuries]
"allowing [transferring] global economic policies, structures,
and systems [to us] to serve the public interest instead of
people and their environment serving globalization. [then we
will give some bread to the peasants]"

Wow! Fascinating...
Post by kb
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
For the West, some thinly veiled threats.
Post by kb
"A world of glaring inequality is never going to be a fully
safe world.
For millions of people, the threat of terrorism,
or of weapons of mass destruction, is remote compared to the
daily threat of poverty, hunger, unsafe water, environmental
degradation and disease.
We have come to a decisive moment in history."
Kofi Annan

[Give us your money. That'll make us "equal".]
[If we aren't equal we'll make sure you're not safe.]
[You think your WMDs are a problem but you ain't seen
[nothing yet. Give it to us now or else!]

Good work, Kofi. That ad writing job is still open.
Post by kb
“The developed nations of the world cannot remain secure islands of
prosperity in a seething sea of poverty.
The storm is rising against the privileged minority of the earth,
from which there is no shelter in isolation and armament.
The storm will not abate until a just distribution of the fruits
of the earth enables men everywhere to live in dignity and human
decency.”
[
Post by kb
Martin Luther King, Jr
[No military can stop us - we're gonna get your ass;]
[Cuz there's more of us than there are of you white folks.]
[We want what you've got, NOW!]

Good work Martin, or whoever wrote it.
Post by kb
----------------
"Without sharing there can be no justice; without justice there can be
no peace; without peace there can be no future."
Maitreya, the World Teacher
http://www.share-international.org
[If you don't give us what we want we will terrorize you;]
[And make sure that you never get a good nights sleep;]
[And we can do this a long time so give us want we want.]

Strabo, the Universal Constant
t***@concentric.net
2004-06-23 03:34:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Strabo
Hmmm, lunch time and I think I've found some entertainment.
This is a winner!
Let's dissect this paragraph...
You don't make any sense either.
--
Therese Shellabarger / The Roving Reporter - Civis Mundi
***@concentric.net / http://tlshell.cnc.net/
kb
2004-06-30 16:04:21 UTC
Permalink
Pampered Bush Meets a Real Reporter


June 29, 2004
Capital Times / Madison, Wisconsin

Pampered Bush Meets a Real Reporter
by John Nichols


On the eve of his recent sojourn in Europe, President Bush had an
unpleasant run-in with a species of creature he had not previously
encountered often: a journalist.

[http://www.rte.ie/news/2004/0624/primetime.html]

He did not react well to the experience.

Bush's minders usually leave him in the gentle care of the White House
press corps, which can be counted on to ask him tough questions about
when his summer vacation starts.

Apparently under the mistaken assumption that reporters in the rest of
the world are as ill-informed and pliable as the stenographers who
"cover" the White House, Bush's aides scheduled a sit-down interview
with Carole Coleman, Washington correspondent for RTE, the Irish
public television network.

Coleman is a mainstream European journalist who has conducted
interviews with top officials from a number of countries - her January
interview with Secretary of State Colin Powell was apparently solid
enough to merit posting on the State Department's Web site.

Unfortunately, it appears that Coleman failed to receive the memo
informing reporters that they are supposed to treat this president
with kid gloves. Instead, she confronted him as any serious journalist
would a world leader.

She asked tough questions about the mounting death toll in Iraq, the
failure of U.S. planning, and European opposition to the invasion and
occupation. And when the president offered the sort of empty and
listless "answers" that satisfy the White House press corps - at one
point, he mumbled, "My job is to do my job" - she tried to get him
focused by asking precise follow-up questions.

The president complained five times during the course of the interview
about the pointed nature of Coleman's questions and follow-ups -
"Please, please, please, for a minute, OK?" the hapless Bush pleaded
at one point, as he demanded his questioner go easy on him.

After the interview was done, a Bush aide told the Irish Independent
newspaper that the White House was concerned that Coleman had
"overstepped the bounds of politeness."

As punishment, the White House canceled an exclusive interview that
had been arranged for RTE with first lady Laura Bush.

Did Coleman step out of line? Of course not. Watch the interview (it's
available on the www.rte.ie Web site) and you will see that Coleman
was neither impolite nor inappropriate. She was merely treating Bush
as European and Canadian journalists do prominent political players.
In Western democracies such as Ireland, reporters and politicians
understand that it is the job of journalists to hold leaders
accountable.

The trouble is that accountability is not a concept that resonates
with our president. The chief executive who gleefully declares that he
does not read newspapers cannot begin to grasp the notion that
journalists might have an important role to play in a democracy. And,
if anything, the hands-off approach of the White House press corps has
reinforced Bush's conceits.

continues here:
http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0629-02.htm
=============

the interview:
http://www.rte.ie/news/2004/0624/primetime.html

==================

Good source for news: http://www.commondreams.org

======================

"Without sharing there can be no justice; without justice there can be
no peace; without peace there can be no future."

The World Teacher
http://www.share-international.org

it's about truth, justice, sanity & benevolence

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